Location: BE Points: 229 |
Posted On: 2014-07-09 13:37:40
Was David and Goliath a true story and what is actual basis for it?
Was David and Goliath a true story as purpoted by BBC in this report that it could have been:
Also, was David and Goliath about David being a Christian soldier defeating Goliath the representative of Paganism? Or was David and Goliath about David the Israelite defeating the Goliath of Philistine army?
As of today 175 Palestinians have been slaughtered by Israel plus 1000s of Palestinians maimed and injured, while during the same time NO Israelis have been killed by Hammas (aka Palestinians). So I think these numbers are irrefutable proof that Palestinians are David and Israel Goliath, but alas in Real World Goliath Wins all the time. Now lets also state what makes Israel so one sided in this slaughter of Palestinians? It is that Israel has the Palestinians in Gaza living in a near open concentration camp so Palestinians cannot get any Weapons, hek they cannot even buy a Helicopter. They do not even have an Airport in Gaza due to this total Israel clamp on Palestinians in that area. So Israel is basically shooting fish in the barrel which fish it makes sure cannot break out of that barrel.
Tell me London is Calling, what's your real purpose for commenting today? Funny how you and others mention the "slaughter" of Palestinians, yet address nothing concerning the real issue, which is evident by your omission of other facts of equal importance. Like Hamas' willingness to hide behind the Palestinians, while launching rocket after rocket into Israel. It's not from their lack of trying to kill Israeli citizens that Hamas has not. You'd accept that if you weren't such a racist!
EH..calling LONDON ? ? ? So Hamas is David? You've obviously forgotten the original scenario from which these outlandish analogies are being drawn. David went out to DEFEND against the superior forces of the Philistines, who were the Aggressors. THAT has NOT changed - Israel is still the DEFENDER. It is clear that lines are being constantly drawn between peace loving people & anarchists who cowardly hide behind innocent women & children while employing bully tactics to incite their terrorism.
London is Calling: I believe it bears the re-posting of MJThompson's prior posting. It goes straight to the heart of which Satan is the master planner, and what I feel you support each time you blame one without blaming the other. Here's MJ's Post: "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." Eph. 6:12. Both sides must relent, or Satan wins!
Okinawa - AMEN! Oh that the blinders be lifted from the eyes of fallen humanity! Flesh (color, ethnicity, national identity, gender) is not, nor has it ever been the enemy! The devil just laughs at bigotry, predjudice, & arrogance as we bite and slander one another. But scripture rightly and boldly declares "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus" Gal. 3:28. Wake up world!
Goliath was one of five brothers. He was a mercenary serving in the Philistine Army from the City-State of Gath. However he was not a Philistine. He was a from a people the bible call, "Anakim." The Anakim were also know of in Babylonia and Sumer as "Ananaki." The were described as being massive, "giants" and the 1st Century Jewish Historian Joseph said that in his day, they knew of skeletons of such people. Other ancient records such as the books of Jasher and Jubilees speak of these people as well. Also in the cuneiform writings of Sumer and Akkad, both places which are in Iraq today. Some of the Anakim were as large as ten feet to eleven feet tall. There were other tribes of massive people called, "Rephaim," and "Zamzumim." We see such people portrayed in the hieroglyphs in Egypt.
We know that David of Bethlehem was a strong and powerful warrior, not a child. The stone from his sling would have impacted Goliath with the force of a 45 Caliber hand gun.
In todays World David is Palestine and Goliath is Israel and the right-wing lying US Media that this Israeli (Zionist Cabal via the Wall Street) control. And alas in the real World, in todays World, David is getting slaughtered daily by the Goliath as per Israel having KILLED at least 80 Palestinians today only, 8 Children in 1 family, via the state of art of Military arsenal provided to them by US Tax payers who are also suffering under the yokes of this Goliath due to this Zionist Goliath control of US Media. Proof of all which fact was that this morning on CNBC they had this lying sack oh sheeet called Allan Dershowitz who is a Professor at Harvard stating such insane psychotic lies as:
"Palestinians want Israel to hit Civilians areas.." when Israel is bombing a city which by definition is civilian area and Gaza has ZERO Military installations from which to fight Israel since if it had any Military installations Israel would have bombed it already. And so goes on the lying by this Zionist Parasitic enemy within which has taken over the US Media & Government.
Jessica_papa, can you possibly believe all of what you have said? Come now, be real! To believe Israel likes nothing better than to bomb and kill innocent civilians, or that they aren't trying to target known extremists who have coward themselves within such ranks, to me, represents a willful and total disregard of fair scrutiny on your part. All are to blame, not one. There is no separated right or wrong in such regard. Both sides must relent, or the slaughters will continue, just as Satan
Cont'd >> commands of his subjects. Resist Satan (both sides) and the slaughters will stop. You must believe in God and scriptures in order to accept that. And if you believe and accept such, you must believe that through resistance of Satan, the end of the suffering will come. Both sides - all sides!
The key to "breaking the code" is in Jessica's use of the term "Zionist Cabal via the Wall Street". The poor dear girl is obviously yet another victim of the very biased media she perports to resent & oppose. The problem is that she was educated under a system void of absolutes, ensnared in mere situational ethics, resulting in a point of view based entirely upon unreliable propaganda rather substantial facts well supported by overwhelming evidence, available to every sincere seeker of truth.
Jessica-papa, what should the US do if Mexico starts lobbing rockets into Texas? You are darn right we would retaliate, and not think twice about it. That is all Isreal is doing, trying to stop the terror being placed upon it's citizens by rocket attacks.
servant, If Mexico was under US occupation, if Mexico was turned into an open Concentration camp, as Israel has turned Gaza into an open Concentration camp, then Mexico would have the right to lob rockets into Texas. The answer to which would be to get Texas to stop KILLING People in Mexico at Will as Israel has been doing in Gaza and in fact in all the land around it and not say that Texas has the right to KILL even more people in Mexico.
The end days truly are upon us. Not even Jessica_papa can see what is really happening in Gaza and Israel, because of the mask she wears. It would seem, the more people choose to disagree with her, the less reasoning one can hope to receive from her. It's fact well placed, there can be no one-sided 'absolute' wrong or right of what is going on. Again I say, both sides must relent and remove the hate, or the only possible winner through all of this will be SATAN!
Okianwa, 150 11out 150 Palestinain Civilians while ZERO Israelis have been Killed by Gaza side during the same time. After all Gaza side has NO Modern Weapons, while Israel is Armed to the teeth thanks to US American Tax payers. And you call this 150 Palestinian KILLED vs ZERO Israeli killed to be "both side must relent..." Man wake up to the con job and SCAM that Israeli interest been playing on US via their control of Media in US. Wake up people b4 it is too late.
real_patriot: Separate your bias attitude, or possibly hatred for Israel, and collect a bit of reasoning. I find it somewhat abrasive that you choose to use this particular situation to argue the point in Israel being the only one wrong in this instance. As I said, and I'll continue to say in one way or another, "It takes two to tangle" so to speak. Both sides have shown (by ACTIONS) their unwillingness to negotiate desiring a TRUE - MUTUAL - SETTLEMENT! I suggest you WAKE UP!
Cont'd >> before it's too late for you. To set blame solely at Israel's feet could and should be deemed as racist on your part. To put the blame at the Palestinians feet, could and should be deemed as racist on my part. There are two sides to this coin, and it dates back even farther than it's obvious you can imagine. Both Israel and Palestine have suffered much. It's unfortunate that you only fail to see Israel's suffering in all of this.
150 Palestinians Killed in last few days by Israel, while 0 Israeli Killed by Hamas and you actually say that:
"Separate your bias attitude, or possibly hatred for Israel, and collect a bit of reasoning"
So the facts are you like many Americans are brain washed by Israeli (Zionist) control of US Media and thus cannot deal with absolute facts such as:
150 Palestinians Killed in last few days by Israel, while 0 Israeli Killed by Hamas
is absolute proof that real Terror comes from Israel.
Manfred009, you just don't get it. No, you still refuse to get it! Israel's defenses are very adequate to prevent the mass slaughter of their people. They care enough to prevent such from happening. With dozens of rockets launched against them daily, it's not for lack of trying that Hamas has not been able to kill Israeli citizens. If Hamas cared more about the Palestinian people, there's no doubt in my mind that the killing would stop. Hamas cowards within the ranks of its people.
Cont'd >> They believe they can shield themselves by placing Palestinian citizens in harms way. This is something Israel would never do. Still you blame them solely for everything. This is definitely not a just view on your part. Start putting the blame where it will serve the most - ON BOTH SIDES!!!!
Real_patriot – please forgive my criticism of your remarks about the unbalance between Israel and Palestinian terrorism, but you’re either willingly biased or ignorantly misinformed! The biggest difference between Israel and their enemy (which is Hamas, NOT all Palestinians) is in motivation. The Palestinian terrorist organization Hamas is behind the rocket fire launched at Israel. They are the aggressors, Israel is merely responding in defense. Israel has a much more sophisticated weapons
weapons defense mechanism than does the UNOFFICIALLY sanctioned Hamas terrorists. Israel uses its high tech weapons to protect its people, while Hamas uses its people to hide their placements and insurgent troops. How can you call yourself “real patriot” when you sympathize with terrorists and oppose the US government's sanctions and support of Israel? Have you forgotten the Holocoaust or do you believe details related to it are also propaganda by a "slanted" nedia?
Terrorism is the enemy. Whether the focus is on Israelis & Palestinians or other people groups, terrorism operates within such groups & constantly moves to avoid detection & elimination. We must keep in mind that terrorists are relatively minor factions within a chosen society & should NEVER be confused with larger people groups. Israel’s response to the latest terrorist attacks launched from behind Palestinian settlements is no different than how the US would respond to similar attacks
launched from behind Palestinian settlements is no different than how the US would respond to similar attacks launched from Mexican territory. While the US would recognize the terrorist aggression, it would not conclude that Mexico as a nation was launching war against America. The identity of the Palestinians has always been one of a largely unorganized nomadic tribes who have settled throughout the land area largely occupied by Arabs & Jews. As such, they have been a perfect "escape-goat"
for terrorist organizers who claim to have a Palestinian sympathy behind their cause, when in reality, they Do NOT want to establish a lawful Palestinian government or “homeland” recognized by the other nations of the world. NO, their sole reason for existence is to destroy the existing nations & authorities (whether Israel, the U.S., British Empire, etc.) so that they can be in CONTROL. As they have proved time & again, they will stop at nothing to get their way. They have absolutely
NO regard for human life – not even their own! They are mad at the world & while claiming support of a “holy jihad” they really promote anarchy. Meanwhile, they continue to gain support of "their" cause by infiltrating weaker social groups & recruiting persons with an existing leftist bias who swallow their rhetoric & propaganda because they relate to their hatred of the existing world systems, thinking some great global conspiracy exists & needs to be stopped, when the real conspiracy is
spiritual. "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." Eph. 6:12. Just a little reminder of where our focus should be, seeing this forum is titled "Religion Christian", NOT "World Politics". Peace!
Thanks for all the answers, but to be frank I was not looking for Biblical answers but scientific answers as to weather this David vs Goliath was an actual true story since some recent evidence such as the one I refer to in the BBC article seem to have indicated a while back that it was a true event but then they never completed the answer.
Europal, with the exception of the measurements given, as to the overall height of Goliath, what scientific evidence could there be. Through historical fact finding, the history of King David, the Philistines and Goliath are well documented. Tell me, with man's capability for exaggeration, lies and distortions, can you honestly prove, beyond a doubt, all the exploits of, let's say, Mark Antony (Marcus Antonius). Truth is, you accept them based on writings, just as you would on virtually
Cont'd >> everything else the history books have to show. With scriptures, there is seemingly the supernatural. All inspired through the invisible God of whom we either believe in or don't. Just as man will lie, distort and exagerate the truth, it comes down to our belief, or in some instances our gullibility, as to whether we accept or reject. With scriptures, it always comes down to our faith
WHAT??? Did you NOT read my ANSWER. I purposely avoided any Biblical refernces, assuming that was NOT what you were wanting!!! I gave a secular historical evidence (the “Tel-Dan” stone discovered in 1993). And a rather professional accompanying commentary.
Well maybe the story of the Israelite defeating the Goliath is true and maybe it is not. But what is true is that today Israel is the Mega Goliath and Palestine is the lil David, given the FACT that Israel has Army of Goliath Tanks, Goliath Jet fighter, Goliath Attack Helicopters, etc. and Palestinians have ZERO of such weapons but all they have are some home made rockets which is truly equivalent of David having a sling shot to Goliath being armed well like a Goliath.
Of course the reason for this inequity (inbalance of fire power) is because since 1948 Israel has been recognised as an independent state and nation, whereas the palestinians have yet to form a cohesive government with a drafted constitution, causing them to be construed as alien to the government of Israel and factions of terrorist activity are provided safe haven within their ranks. The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) is an organization founded in 1964 with the purpose of creating
an independent State of Palestine. It is recognized as the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people by over 100 states with which it holds diplomatic relations. It has had observer status at the United Nations since 1974. The PLO was considered by the United States & Israel to be a terrorist organization until the Madrid Conference in 1991. In 1993, the PLO recognized Israel's right to exist in peace, accepted UN Security Council resolutions 242 and 338, & rejected
"violence & terrorism". In response, Israel officially recognized the PLO as the representative of the Palestinian people. But since the death of its founding leader Yasser Arafat in 2004, his successor, Abu Mazen, has been constantly tied to Hamas, universally known as a terrorist organization, NOT a developed nation. So the current conflict is more like a civil war than two opposing nations, one Goliath & the other David.
To all, this is a 'truly' sad state of affairs. Decades of hatred since 1948, have produced only moments of resolve. In fairness, one must consider because of their treatment of our Lord, and prophetic fulfillment, the Jewish Temple was destroyed and the Jews were scattered to the four corners of the earth. During their absence, the Palestinians controlled the land. The Jews migrated back to reclaim it. With aid, primarily through the unofficial help given by the U. S., Israel won statehood.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the "Palestinians" have never controlled Palestine. After Israel, the Romans, and after the Romans, the Ottoman Empire, who lost it to the British when they lost World War I. Then the British ceded it back to Israelis, who are the only ones who have ever been successful in truly inhabiting and bringing the land back to life. In the mean time, those who lived in Palestine, were called Palestinians, and they were both Jew and Arab races, the Jews settled, and Arabs
were nomadic. So when you are talking about "Palestinians", you are not talking about just Arabic/Persian people, but Jews as well. The problem is truly a family feud that started with Abraham and his son's Isaac and Ishmael, and who has the true birthright to the land.
The truth is, the Bible and Tora are being confirmed in their accuracy every day in the Middle East through archeology. While the battle or stand off has not yet been proven, the accuracy of Bible truths, verified by archeologists so far, would tend to lead me more towards believing that the story must be true. The Bible has never been disproven, but it has been proven to be accurate scientifically many times.
servant - I appreciate your concluding remark "The Bible has never been disproven, but it has been proven to be accurate scientifically many times." It is a very important point of which all biblical critics should take note. Although ignorant theories run wild, factual evidence overwhelmingly supports the biblical record. Even where for a time the record seems contradictory, eventually the seeming contradictions are disolved by deeper research accompanied by new arceological discoveries.
The answer regarding whether the story is true lies within an accepted definition of truth. Many discount any story contained in the Bible as fiction or myth, while others trust scripture as absolute truth. Obviously, giving only scriptural support for the story is NOT going to convince critics of scripture. But secular historical records prove much regarding David. The “Tel-Dan” stone discovered in 1993 bears an inscription dating back to the 9th century BC. Written in Aramaic, it relates the conquest of an Aramean king over his two southern neighbors: the “king of Israel” and the “king of the House of David.” The inscription, translated by epigrapher Joseph Naveh, proves that King David was a genuine historical figure, not simply the literary creation of Biblical writers. Originally inscribed by one of ancient Israel’s fiercest enemies a century after David’s death, it recognizes David as the founder of the kingdom of Judah.
As for the rest of the QUESTION, there is much historical evidence to support David the Israelite defeating Goliath the Philistine, but the idea that the story is an allegory meant to represent Christian conquest over evil is a stretch of imagination & one of private interpretation. An interesting thought, but far from adequate scriptural support to be considered sound doctrine, or TRUTH.
Hello and great question. Yes it was a true account of what happened in the early life of King David of Israel. The story goes that the young David couldn't understand why the army was so afraid of this man when they had God on their side so David offered to take on this man by himself. David had a lot of trust in God but at this stage of his life he was quite immature and self-confident however, this situation sparked a series of events where David would be put through an immense amount of trials before he would eventually become King including the present king wanting to kill him. History both secular and Christian record the life of David very accurately so to us Christians, it's a certainty that this event happened. I think what us Christians take from the account is that if God be with us, who could be against us and that for all the power and might a foe might have, he can be taken down as simply as David did in his encounter but the account like I said rolls on as....
According to Guenis Book of World Records, the tallest man in modern times was 8'1". Goliath's 9'6" stature is what scripture records, so it is likely to be accurate when one considers other measurements given in the Bible (dimensions of the temple, distances, currency, etc.) have come under similar scrutiny & always found to be accurate when properly translated into corresponding languages. Scripture also refers to a time when giants existed, known as Nephilim [Gen.6:4; Num. 13:33]
In reality, the only answer to this question must be given based upon our beliefs in God and scriptures and, of course, those who were Devinely Inspired to write them. Since only God can know anything in or to its absoluteness, it is obvious then that whatever answer we give must be based on our absolute faith in it being so. Does the Bible show that David and Goliath existed? Yes, the Bibles does show it. Does the Bible show that David slew Goliath? Yes, the Bible does show it. Apart from faith in God and scripture, no one can be absolutely certain. But through faith, we who believe are certain. Just as I believe that there was Christian behavior before Christ's first coming. This fact, however, doesn't mean that I subscribe to the belief (fully) to the second part of your question. It is enough for me to know, based on scripture, Goliath was a part of the pagan, Philistine army, and David was an Israelite. It is also likely, Goliath was born from Nephilim. Again, only God's knowing
Okinawa - It is good to see a post from you, it's been a while, how are you? Could you please elaborate on your statement "Just as I believe that there was Christian behavior before Christ's first coming."? As you should know by now, I believe there is a distinct & absolute difference between the old & new covenants (OT & NT), the new completely replacing the old. The term "Christian" implies a follower of Christ & corresponding behavior of such individuals was an impossibility prior to
Christ's Incarnation & earthly ministry being COMPLETED. Even while He was on earth, his closest followers were not "Christian". Their "behavior" was still Jewish, as they were still under OT law. It was not until AFTER Christ's sacrificial death, resurrection, & ascension into heaven that God poured out the Holy Spirit upon true believers in Christ's finished work of salvation. NT scripture clearly teaches that without the Holy Spirit resident in a believers life, they are NOT true Christians.
A true Christian's behavior comes from being led by the Spirit, which was not even possible prior to Christ's COMPLETED work of atonement and redemption, 1st on earth over 2000 years ago, & then as it is received one by one by true believers. OT believers behavior was based upon compliance with OT regulations, while Christian's behavior is based upon yeilding to God's Spirit within them. The 1st is based upon human ability & submission to law; the latter is based upon an appreciation & full
submission to God's ability & acceptance of His grace by faith & yeilding to the Holy Spirit. I see significant differences in behavior accodingly. The consistent behavior between OT & NT believers is that they're both saved under the SAME manner - namely their FAITH in God's promise to provide a Savior. OT believers looked forward to the coming of Christ & were saved by trusting God to send Messiah. NT believers look back to Christ's coming & are saved by the same FAITH in God's promise.
Hello MJ, I'm doing fine. Thanks for asking. My understanding of Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek has improved significantly. Still have a ways to go, of course, but I'm getting there, slowly but surely. But to your question: First, let me assure you that my statement regarding "Christian behavior" has nothing to do with my understanding and acceptance of what it means to be a Christian based on the Christian/Greek (NT).
Continued >> My statement was purely idiological, in that Christianity is a way of life. Yes, the New Covenant put it in a class by itself, but when you think about it MJ, had Adam and Eve not sinned, what would life's behavior had been on earth? The behavior would have been based on the two commandments our Lord Jesus Christ left us with, which, as you know, were condensed from God's Original 10-Words (Commandments).
Continued >> Also, MJ, the very essence of Christianity is based on LOVE! Not the kind of love people throw around today, but 'true' LOVE. The only two required that enable one who truly loves, to not "have any other God but the One True God"; to not "make any carved images, and bow down to them"; to not take up "God's name in a worthless way";
Continued >> In other words, MJ, any and all of God's Original Commandments that are still in effect (those which still apply) would have been observed in like manner as those left by our Lord Jesus Christ. Through Christianity, mankind (those who survive), move into living as they were meant to live from the beginning.
Continued >> But in short, my statement regarding "Christian behavior" during the time of David and Goliath was in response to the second part of the question, which referred to David being a Christian soldier. Literally - absolutely not! Idiologically - yes! Since the essence of Christianity is based on LOVE.
Okinawa - Well stated, thank you for that clarification. To equate behavior with love (pertaining specifically to your comment) sheds a better light on where you are coming from in terms of "Christian Behavior". Indeed, the OT record supports the "love" that many of the cited patriarchs displayed. Therefore, I agree with you on that. It is also good to recieve your update on your personal biblical languages studies. Godspeed & Peace!