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heresy-sniper

Joined: 2018-03-16
Location: GERMANY (Deutschland)
Points: 33 | Capitan

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Posted On: 2018-03-16 13:49:09
Viewed: 2540
Was Jesus the Jewish Messiah?

Why is it so hard for Jews to believe that Jesus from Nazareth is their Messiah?
Was he who worked so many miracles really so weak or a weakling?
Was that one who himself took his life again after his death really a weakling?
I guess that Jesus was in fact the most powerful man who has ever lived on earth.
I think that being the Jewish Messiah would go very well with Jesus.

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Answers: 54

Bayon2017


Points: 27 | Capitan

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1 year 5 months ago

In any case, Jesus was born Jewish and he died Jewish.
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webfuelcode


Points: 11 | Trainer

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1 year 5 months ago

Jewish are still looking for their Messiah. This Messiah according to them would free them from their enemy and they mostly relate it to the physical world and Jesus told them it is not.

Jesus himself declared he is what the people of Israel were promised. People never agree in one teaching they always see their own way and I believe it will be until the end.
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heresy-sniper 1 year 5 months ago

You make a mistake when you assume Jesus' freeing would be merely spiritual - no, when
Jesus will return in the form and glory of God, he will use physical violence to free his
people. When Jesus will return, his living people will comprise mostly Jewish Christians
(Jews who converted to Christianity).

The problem of the present Jews is that they cannot understand why Jesus was that meek
and humble when he lived on earth; they consider Jesus' meekness and humility as weakness.



heresy-sniper 1 year 5 months ago

Yet, the reason why Jesus will return in the form and glory of God is that he was so meek
and humble when he lived on earth. God, the Father, bestowed upon Jesus, God, the Son, the
divine honour of being ruler of the universe and ruler of all history (Kyrios). God
exalted Jesus because he obeyed God.

God would exalt the Jews if they would start to believe that Jesus from Nazareth is their
spiritual Messiah. If they would become meek and humble through Jesus, God himself would
wage their wars.

webfuelcode 1 year 5 months ago

This is another topic...

Here -was Jesus jews messiah...?
We can all ask why and why not. Jews do not want to see if something happen
unexpectedly...


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alex


Points: 10 | Trainer

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1 year 6 months ago

Jesus was and is the Jewish messiah as he still lives today seated on the right hand of the father in heaven. All any Jewish person or anyone else has to do is to speak to him and ask him to forgive them for their sins and ask him to come into their heart and reveal himself to them. Pray to jesus for revelation of his will for their life.
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heresy-sniper 1 year 6 months ago

Do you see baptism as a mere symbolic act, or do you think that God acts during baptism?

As for me, I believe that the only true baptism is the sacramental baptism, and during
that baptism God acts and regenerates the person to be baptized - this is also the rebirth
out of Water and Spirit.

Through the rebirth or sacramental baptism we get really connected with Jesus, Lord and
God. Baptism becomes effective if we repent and believe - baptism is no magical-mechanical
act. God regards our will.

MJThompson 1 year 6 months ago

What you refer to as “the only true baptism is the sacramental baptism” originates
from Catholic dogma, NOT the teaching of Christ. Jesus spoke of becoming ‘born again’
as a spiritual birth – the water representing our physical birth, the spirit signifying
the entrance of His Spirit into our life after acceptance of Him as Lord and Savior.
‘Sacramental baptism’ is a physical ritual to symbolize this spiritual union with God.

MJThompson 1 year 6 months ago

In Catholicism, infant baptism is performed resulting in someone other than the individual
themselves (the baby) ‘confessing’ their acceptance of Christ. This is inconsistent
with what Scripture teaches.
Therefore, I agree – “Through the rebirth or sacramental baptism we get really
connected with Jesus, Lord and God. Baptism becomes effective if we repent and believe -
baptism is no magical-mechanical act. God regards our will.

MJThompson 1 year 6 months ago

Nevertheless, I would eliminate the term ‘sacramental baptism’ from the equation. No
ritual (or 'sacrament') can of itself provide the reconciliation and right relationship
with God in Christ. Many who practice religious exercises merely replace a personal
relationship with God with a works based idea of salvation. To place undue emphasis upon
'sacraments' conflicts with NT teaching on salvation by grace.

heresy-sniper 1 year 6 months ago

Emphasis upon sacraments doesn't conflict with NT teaching on salvation by grace.
According to the evidence of the Bible, sacramental baptism is the true and only baptism.
Sacramental baptism was by no means invented by any lousy pope but by Jesus Christ himself
- I am not a Roman Catholic but a Protestant or Lutheran. By the way, Bonhoeffer, the
great brave German Protestant pastor, had the same opinion like me; this is just the
opinion of the early Church founded by Jesus and the 12 apostles.

MJThompson 1 year 5 months ago

The term 'sacrament' is NOT found in Scripture. It is as I properly informed a ritual
originating in Roman Catholicism - 3 centuries AFTER Christ. Jesus did NOT 'invent' it!
Lutheran Theology is the result of Martin Luther's objection to several Catholic
doctrines. He was a Catholic priest when the Holy Spirit revealed to him that, contrary
to Catholic dogma, we are saved by grace, not works. Catholics use sacraments as means of
gaining spiritual 'indulgences' (earning God's favor).

MJThompson 1 year 5 months ago

Luther further disagreed with the Catholic sacrament of the Mass which teaches & supposes
that the elements actually BECOME the literal Body & Blood of Christ at the Consecration
part of the ceremony. This is known as “Transubstantiation”. “Consubstantiation”
is a term commonly applied to the Lutheran concept of the communion supper. The idea is
that in the communion the body and blood of Christ and the bread and wine coexist in union
with each other.

MJThompson 1 year 5 months ago

Any dogma that attempts to place the real presence of the flesh and blood of Christ into
the communion components, in a literal sense, is the result of a misunderstanding of the
language employed in the Scriptures. Correct interpretation of the Bible requires the
ability to distinguish between language that is used in a figurative sense versus that
which is employed in a literal sense.

MJThompson 1 year 5 months ago

Normally, a word should be viewed as literal unless other considerations make it
impossible to interpret the term in that light. When Jesus took bread & wine, gave them
to the disciples, and said, “this is my body ... this is my blood” (Mt. 26:26-28), He
quite obviously was not speaking literally, for He still possessed his literal body &
blood! Since you are a Lutheran, of course your theology differs in assuming that the last
progressive revelation from God was centuries ago.

MJThompson 1 year 5 months ago

Luther indeed, had received from God & started the Great Reformation. To his credit, much
of the false doctrines of Catholicism were exposed. But many other important heresies have
been revealed since, the reason so many different Protestant denominations exist today. I
advocate no specific one, but endeavor to reveal Scripture as rightly interpreted by
employing the best systematic approach of inter-denominational Bible scholars and
Christian Ministers.

MJThompson 1 year 5 months ago

Bonhoeffer was a Lutheran pastor but did NOT proclaim the opinion of the early Church
founded by Jesus and the 12 apostles relative to sacraments. Sacraments were first
introduced as an "outward and visible sign of inward and spiritual grace," Tertullian (c.
160–c. 220) first introduced the term translated from the Latin word ‘sacramentum’,
which soldiers used to denote oaths they took and intended to keep as a sign of the
beginning of a new life, so too was initiation into the Christian

MJThompson 1 year 5 months ago

community through sacraments. This view prevailed through the centuries before Luther,
but have since been widely debated & refined as grace usurped works. Modern Christianity
is defined largely by two schools of theology = Liturgical and "non-liturgical" churches
based on how elaborate or antiquated the worship; in this usage, churches whose services
are unscripted or improvised are called "non-liturgical". They follow no pre-planned order
of service, believing the Holy Spirit shall lead.

MJThompson 1 year 5 months ago

"Now when they bring you to the synagogues and magistrates and authorities, do not worry
about how or what you should answer, or what you should say. For the Holy Spirit will
teach you in that very hour what you ought to say.” - Lk.12: 11, 12. Most Liturgical
churches follow a pre-written 'liturgical calendar' that prescribes the Scripture verses
to be used on every particular day, rather than relying on the Spirit's spontaneous
anointing for each.


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rajasthanonwheel


Points: 6 | Trainer

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1 year 6 months ago

esus is the central figure of Christianity, believed by Christians to be the messiah, the son of God and the second person in the Trinity.

But what do Jews believe about Jesus?

For some Jews, the name alone is nearly synonymous with pogroms and Crusades, charges of deicide and centuries of Christian anti-Semitism.
Other Jews, recently, have come to regard him as a Jewish teacher. This does not mean, however, that they believe, as Christians do, that he was raised from the dead or was the messiah.
While many people now regard Jesus as the founder of Christianity, it is important to note that he did not intend to establish a new religion, at least according to the earliest sources, and he never used the term “Christian.” He was born and lived as a Jew, and his earliest followers were Jews as well. Christianity emerged as a separate religion only in the centuries after Jesus’ death.
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SELLANZ


Points: 12 | Trainer

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1 year 6 months ago

Yes Jesus was a Jew and as history and the bible explains that God and Jesus "his son" and Moses before Jesus has protected the Jews and rescued the 400 000 slaves mostly Jews from Eqypt earlier
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heresy-sniper 1 year 6 months ago

Did you know that many of those who had gone through the Red Sea died in the wilderness?

They had left Egypt only in an outward manner, but inside their hearts, they stayed in
Egypt.

Briefly: it is all about faith. Certainly, the Jews as a whole have a certain nobility
because they are of the stock of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Yet, only a Jew who believes in
a redeemer will reap eternal life. The biological descent is not enough - every Jews needs
to believe in Jesus Christ, the Redeemer.

alex 1 year 6 months ago

I agree all jews must begin to believe in Jesus Christ.


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MJThompson


Points: 342 | DemiGOD

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1 year 6 months ago

Traditional Jewish belief is that Messiah has not yet come, so the total rejection of Jesus as either Messiah or deity has never been a central issue for Judaism. Fulfillment of prophecies Christianity attributes to Jesus are regarded as misinterpretations. Since Jews believe that none of the events associated with a Messianic Age of peace (the return of Jews to their homeland and the rebuilding of The Temple), occurred during the lifetime of Jesus, he was not the Messiah. Many modern Jewish scholars have sympathetically speculated that the historical Jesus may have been closer to Judaism than either the Gospels or traditional Jewish accounts would indicate.
As to whether Jesus is the Jewish Messiah, a proper identification of which 'Jesus' must be considered. If the historic person named Jesus of Nazareth (who is referred to in the NT as Jesus Christ) is in question, then consider it a matter of personal faith. What each individual comes to believe is the only point.
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MJThompson 1 year 6 months ago

The Greek term translated 'Christ' = Messiah. A better question is Who do you say Christ
is? " Jesus asked His disciples, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?” - Mt.
16:13. But the ultimate question each person must rightly answer was posed by Jesus to
Peter, “But who do YOU say that I am?” - Mk. 8:29.
Still, right identification alone is not enough. Jesus warned, "Many will come in My
name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many." - Mt.24:5

MJThompson 1 year 6 months ago

Whether Christ (Messiah) is the anticipated, depends also upon one's expectation of what
Messiah would accomplish. Was he to build an earthly empire ensuring the universal rule of
Judaism? Or is he, as Christianity teaches, THE spiritual Savior from sin? Even to accept
the religious implications rather than political, apart from a proper emphasis on an
individual's PERSONAL relationship with the eternal Christ, the subject is a moot point.
If Jesus is not THE Savior, it matters NOT who He is.

heresy-sniper 1 year 6 months ago

The problem of the Jews is that up to the current day, they don't want to get changed into
God's true idea of man which is Jesus, the meek and humble lamb.

In fact, the Jews don't like God's real idea of man, the Christian idea. They prefer a
monotheistic God, who is greedy for honour, power and riches.

However, the Jews should consider the following:

If they would be ready to become harmless sheep or lambs in a spiritual sense, God wold
become their shepherd and would wage ware for them.

MJThompson 1 year 6 months ago

Is that an exclusively German opinion about Jews? "God's real idea of man"? It's NOT a
difference between a Christian & Jewish perspective on God's idea of man; the significant
difference is regarding the comprehension of monotheism. Jews & Muslims do NOT accept that
ONE GOD is manifest in several ways - as do Christians. The Father, Son, & Holy Spirit to
Christians are all manifestations of the SAME GOD. Jews & Muslims accept only a single
manifestation - the Father (Yahweh & Allah).

sherry40 1 year 6 months ago

heresy-sniper We tend to see in others faults we ourselves have. What you stated was a
extremely stereotyped and racist point of view. It was not a christian one at all. It
says John 13:34 "A new commandment I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so
also you must love one another. 35 By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if
you love one another.” How is it loving by stereotyping people?

heresy-sniper 1 year 6 months ago

MJThompson, you make a mistake. By no means the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are
all manifestations of the same God, provided you want to express by that phrase that the
Christian God is only one single divine person with three different manifestations.

The real Christian image of God is the following: the Christian God is one God in three
persons - the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. They are perfectly united in the
Godhead. Actually, they are three persons with three wills.

heresy-sniper 1 year 6 months ago

Sherry40, of course a German or any Gentile who does not believe in Jesus has the same
problem like a Jew - he or she wants to be a proud, violent and strong ruler. Yet, for
many centuries God worked the miracle that many Gentiles got awakened and asked God for
change - change took place through the sacramental baptism, the rebirth.

Regrettably, Gentile Christianity has died. No more Gentiles start to believe in Jesus -
Evangelicals don't count. It is high time that the Jews come alive again.

MJThompson 1 year 6 months ago

Heresy-sniper: Your reply, (“The real Christian image of God is the following: the
Christian God is one God in three persons - the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit”) is
merely a doctrine of SOME sects of Christianity. By my inference to different
manifestations of the SAME God I intended that ALL manifestations be considered – NOT
limited to merely three. Scripture declares that God spoke in an audible voice with Adam &
Eve in the Garden; Enoch, Noah, Moses, several OT prophets, and

MJThompson 1 year 6 months ago

all those present at Christ’s Baptism & Transfiguration also were communicated with in
like manner. Appearances as a burning bush, column of smoke, a dove, rushing wind, &
tongues of fire are other ways God has manifest His presence. The ‘persons’ of the
commonly referred to ‘Trinity’ are among the MANY manifestations Scripture reveals.
“There are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit;
and these three are one. There are three that bear witness o

MJThompson 1 year 6 months ago

on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one. If we
receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater; for this is the witness of God
which[b] He has testified of His Son” - 1Jn. 5:7-9. To comprehend ‘THE THREE’ as
having ‘3 wills’ is to contradicts the Scripture as it declares, “these three AGREE
as one”. The will of God is NOT subject to the unsteadiness inherent in the indecisive,
uncertain will of man. God is Omniscient. He always knows

MJThompson 1 year 6 months ago

knows everything & is thoroughly consistent, immutable, unchangeable in all His judgments,
& declarations, in His various manifestations.

MJThompson 1 year 6 months ago

heresy-sniper - Why have you not replied to my rebuttal of your "3 Wills" of God? If you
have Scriptural proof of that , please provide it. Otherwise a concession would be nice.

heresy-sniper 1 year 6 months ago

A small look into the Godhead:

John 16: 13

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for
he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he
will shew you things to come.

This verse proves that the Holy Spirit has an own will. However, he voluntarily
synchronizes with the whole Godhead for the sake of unity. The Holy Ghost esteems the
Father and the Son. The divine persons are very meek and very humble. Get it righ

heresy-sniper 1 year 6 months ago

MJThompson, you are suddenly pretty silent.

Am I allowed to ask, why?

MJThompson 1 year 6 months ago

Heresy-Sniper - You've attempted to 'prove' your position by merely stating as FACT that
which you believe. However, you still lack any substantial evidence for your ideology.
That the Holy Spirit "shall not speak of himself" in the most consistent study of original
languages & prevalent vernacular of the time of writing, the phrase indicates the humility
& unity of the Spirit, giving God (the Godhead) preeminence. Jesus said this about Him (
the Holy Spirit) to introduce the manifestation of

MJThompson 1 year 6 months ago

God that was about to come to true believers (formerly known to merely be 'WITH' them, but
soon to be 'IN' them - Jn. 14:17). His work as Guide to believers into all truth is in NO
WAY a 'synchronization' of the Godhead, as if such clarification 7 oversight was ever
necessary. Your personal hermeneutics lacks sophistication & scholarly credential. Learn
the FACTS before attempting to share information with others. Ironically, your 'handle' is
"heresy-sniper" as you spread false doctrine.

heresy-sniper 1 year 6 months ago

"My" doctrine rests upon the evidence of the Bible. I have the same doctrine like the
early Church which was founded by Jesus and the twelve apostles. The doctrine I spread is
the genuine doctrine, nothing else.

MJThompson, you need a deeper understanding of the Bible - put in some effort:

You may read the "Catechism" of Dr. Martin Luther or "The Cost of Discipleship" by Dr.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer as an introduction to the Bible. Bonhoeffer and Luther were great
teachers of the Church - no doubt


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Okinawa1985


Points: 171 | Sage

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1 year 6 months ago

Greetings, heresy-sniper!

To understand the question, is to understand Jewish beliefs!

Above all else, Jews do not believe that the Messiah is a part of GOD, or of Divinity, more than with any other person. Jews look only to GOD, the Almighty, for theirs and our salvation, and on that day when GOD decides to send forth the anointed king, then it shall happen. Of course, MOST Jews cannot conceive that such as already happened.

What's more, Jews do not concern themselves with the messiah’s identity, because in their eyes the messiah is a person and the messiah's coming does not or will not change their relationship with the One “true” GOD. Jews do not accept the notion that Scripture “foretells” that GOD would manifest Himself into flesh. As a matter of fact, to MOST Jews, the of GOD manifesting Himself into a fleshly body is considered idolatry, so they stand against such a notion!
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Okinawa1985 1 year 6 months ago

Where it says "the of GOD manifesting" should read "the idea of GOD manifesting."

heresy-sniper 1 year 6 months ago

What about Simon bar Kokhba, the warrior?

Though, he was a man, Jews believed that he would be the Messiah.

Why did they accept Simon bar Kokhba but not Jesus?

The answer is very simple: Simon bar Kokhba was a Messiah according to their ideas - a
strong, violent, proud ruler-wallah who fought the Romans.

For the Jews' taste, Jesus is/was a little too meek and too humble to fulfil their
requirements.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_bar_Kokhba

https://israelrecovery.wordpress.com/


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IseeJesus


Points: 17 | Trainer

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1 year 7 months ago

Jesus Fulfilled All of the Prophecies of the Jewish Messiah and here are just a few.
that: 1) The Messiah will be born in Bethlehem from the tribe of Judah. Micah 5:2 (2) The way is prepared by a messenger.Isaiah 40:3 (3) Triumphant Entry into Jerusalem. Zechariah 9: 9 (4) Betrayed by a close friend. Psalm 41: 9 and Also, the friend did it for thirty pieces of silver.Zechariah 11:12 (5) Silent before his accusers.Isaiah 53:7 (6) Spat on and struck, hated without reason, sneered and mocked. Psalm 22: 6-8 (7) Jesus is crucified. Please read in full Isaiah 53, Psalm 22, and Zechariah 12. (8) Jesus cries out! Psalm 22:1 (9) They gamble for his clothing. Psalm 22:18 (10) No bones broken, his side is pierced. Psalm 34: 20 (11) Darkness shall cover the land. Amos 8: 9 (12) Buried with the rich. Isaiah 53: 9 (13) To be resurrected and to ascend to God’s right hand.Psalm 16: 9-10, 49:15, 68:18
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heresy-sniper 1 year 6 months ago

You have got a very profound knowledge of the Bible - I appreciate.

Am I allowed to ask you which Church you belong to?

How do you see baptism? Do you see it as a mere symbolic act or an sacral act which
includes the acting of God.

Concerning the betrayal by Judas:

The betrayal through Judas was so important because neither the Jews nor the Romans could
detain Jesus at a public place at daylight - the ordinary Jews had stoned them because
they loved (!) Jesus. God used evil Judas, the weasel

alex 1 year 6 months ago

I agree 100%. Nothing ever happens that God doesn't have control over.


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glorybound9876


Points: 62 | Coach

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1 year 7 months ago

Yes, Jesus name is YHWH Shua, meaning I AM The Savior ( The Me Ssiah ). He fulfilled hundreds of Old Testament prophecies of the Messiah, including beiing born in Bethlehem, at the correct time in the book of Daniel, descended from King David, the Passover Lamb, hung on a tree, did miracles, lived in Nazareth, etc. He is the Messiah, the Christ, Emmanuel, God with us, and by His stripes we are healed.
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heresy-sniper 1 year 6 months ago

I have heard that most American "Christians" adhere to a mere symbolic baptism.

Yet, according to the evidence of the Bible, the real baptism is the ecclesiastical
baptism or sacramental baptism meaning that God acts during baptism and gives regeneration
to the person to be baptized.

Let us call those ones who adhere to symbolic baptism Evangelicals.

Evangelicals propagate an obscure rebirth they can hardly define.

The rebirth taught by the Church is well defined - it is simply the baptism


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sherry40


Points: 39 | Capitan

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1 year 7 months ago

There were two messiahs spoken of in the old testament and like in the new testament not everything was clear and they wanted to believe in the one that would come back and rule the earth. The religious leaders of the day were afraid of the roman authorities and what they might do to the Jews if they tried to revolt under Jesus Christ. So they put Him to death but all they did was put off what happened 70 years later when the jews tried to revolt and the romans came into the temple and scattered them all and destroyed the temple. Christians of today also have different views of how Christ will come back and when. Just like back then many want to believe the nicer version that keeps them from suffering but Christ never promised to keep us from that in Fact He said in this world you will have trouble.
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Golfer


Points: 137 | Scholar

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1 year 7 months ago

Yes Jesus is the Messiah, the priest under Herod knew the Messiah was born in Bethlehem, was about 2 when the Magi came looking for the Messiah/savior who was born and they followed the star to Israel.
Again Jesus at age 12 was known to the priests, yet 20 years later they rejected Jesus.
The Israelites were looking and still are looking for a Messiah who will make them free from the world powers and not under any domination aka Romans. The 4 heads out of the sea will be Rome/euro(banking), Greece/Political/Iran/Baal/Islam/(False/Religion/Idolority) Persia may represent the military.
Jesus will then come back and rule the world as Messiah and then the Jews will recognize Jesus.
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Marianland 1 year 7 months ago

JESUS: "THEY WILL HATE YOU BECAUSE OF MY NAME"

heresy-sniper 1 year 6 months ago

It is just fun. I am sure that the people of Israel will start to convert to Christianity
within the next decades. In ancient times, God did not protect the Jews against the
Romans. Why? Simply, because they did not accept His religion, which is Christianity, and
even yet Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were Christians, spiritually seen - though, they did not
know the name "Christian", of course. Funny: if the Jews will become Christians, God will
wage their wars, and free them from American dominion.


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Marianland


Points: 42 | Capitan

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1 year 7 months ago

The Son of God Jesus Christ explained why he is the Jewish Messiah. Read the New Testament.
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