Location: United States Points: 171 |
Posted On: 2018-05-14 20:06:54
Who Are The Rightful Owners of Jerusalem?
If the reality of Christianity can be seen with the introduction of Christ to the World, then for sure, the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD marked the ending of the Jews 'sole ownership' of it thereafter. It's true, the Bible does make reference to GOD'S chosen people (the Hebrew Jews) as being the rightful owners of Jerusalem. But with the destruction of the Temple, and the ultimate scattering of the Jews to the four-corners of the globe, possession of Jerusalem changed hands.
I have studied this long and hard. 1948 merely marked the United States' recognition of the State of Israel, and many nations followed suite. With America's backing, first with mercenaries and, then, with full backing. Those who possessed the great city under the New Covenant, were driven out by the Jews upon their return from Europe and other parts of the World.
Palestinians of course, who lived there for 1000s of Years until after WWII US/UN/UK gave Israel lands which then lead to invasion and occupation of Jerusalem by Israel.
I mean just think you own a House in some US city, have lived there for many Years, then all of a sudden an American Indian shows up and says this land you live on and hence your House belong to me since my ancestors, 2000 Years ago, owned this land! How would you like that?
it has always been my belief that Jerusalem rightfully belongs to the people who lived there before the Balfour declaration, which I considered not to be valid or binding, the Palestinians. The state of Israel has absolutely no right to declare ownership over this land, especially based on 1/3 party agreement passed through the British Parliament. Just because the British controlled Palestine, doesn't mean that they owned it.
Wheeler61, I agree.. not simply because of the lack of validity in the Balfour declaration, but because of ancient Biblical history. What many fail to understand is that the first Covenant given to Abraham and his seed is no longer binding under the New Covenant, which took away the Hebrews' rightful ownership to it, which was brought about by the Jews constant disobedience against GOD, and culminating up to the murder of Christ and the final destruction of the (earthly) Temple in Jerusalem.
After it, the Jews were conquered by the Muslims and forced out of Jerusalem, scattered throughout the world. When (spiritual) Jerusalem is fulfilled, as explained at Revelation, it will be for those who are in Christ and Christ be in them.
After it, the Jews were conquered by the Muslims and forced out of Jerusalem, scattered throughout the world. When (spiritual) Jerusalem is fulfilled, as explained at Revelation, it will be for those who are in Christ and Christ be in them.
Take it this way brethren, this is on the issue of the owners of the holy land. Proverbs 14:23 All hard work brings a profit, but mere talk leads only to poverty. Leviticus 19:4 “ ‘Do not turn to idols or make metal gods for yourselves. I am the LORD your God. Why these 2 verses? Look at Egypt for instance, till eternity, the handwork of its people are there as witness of their ownership of the land. The indians that the skinzoomer spoke of, if they have edifications showcasing their
existence in say washington DC, the argument against them will be hard. The Jews lived in the land. While there and through them, the two main religion in the world were birthed. The Messiah of the world was born. The notion of right and wrong were codified into law that guides every civilized society in the world. Now, what legacy does your palestinians leave for either themselves or the world to lend credence and value to their occupation of the promised land?
I dare say - NOTHING!- beside killing each other and killing everyone too weak to defend themselves as well..... for generations.
So brethren, i dare say.. STOP hating the Jews.. A popular adage in my language says, The train moves, the dog may back till the cows come home,the train still moves. If it has balls, let it bite the train... I hope we all understand.
Okinawa1985 What many fail to understand is that the first Covenant given to Abraham and his seed is no longer binding under the New Covenant? Can you give a single verse that confirms it? Sorry there is none, just incorrect interpretation of the Bible text. Genesis 17:4 God says, "Behold, my covenant is with you, and you shall be the father of a multitude of nations.Read also Romans 9:6–8 and 1 Corinthians 3:21–23. Blessings to all.
YosefMarques, thank you for your reply. However, I'm not quite sure I understand exactly what you are saying. On the one hand you state, “What many fail to understand is that the first Covenant given to Abraham and his seed is no longer binding under the New Covenant” but then you ask and state, “Can you give a single verse that confirms it? .. Sorry there is none, just incorrect interpretation of the Bible text.” In truth, what
Cont'd>> so many fail to understand that the words the original authors were inspired by GOD to write, in addition to being “point blank” or direct to the point, were also meant for us to move outside the box, away and apart from the literal into the specifics of reasoning. For instance, if a man looks upon a woman with fornication on his mind, and the Bible clearly shows that fornication is a sin. With the man's
Cont'd>> eyes so trained, does he then, literally, “pluck out his eye” even though the Bible says he should.. or is the 'reasonable' interpretation more in line with Jesus' own words which tells the man to first remove the “beam in his eye” by changing how he thinks and acts contrary to GOD? The Bible doesn't tell us not to smoke cigarettes, but science teaches us that cigarettes are hazardous to human health. It's from reasoning
Cont'd>> we begin to understand that not smoking cigarettes is a way we can “keep the temple (our body) clean.” If, therefore, the Temple was destroyed in 70 AD, and both Jew and Gentile became recipients of the New Covenant, is it not reasonable that the “physical Israel” would not – cannot be solely owned or possessed by Jews alone. And in like manner, should not “Spiritual Israel” be deemed the same? This is what I have concluded through reasoning, when the apparent
Again: Palestinians are, who lived there for 1000s of Years until after WWII US/UN/UK gave Israel lands which then lead to invasion and occupation of Jerusalem by Israel.
AFTER ALL: just think you own a House in some US city, or UK City, Australian city, etc., and have lived there for many Years, then all of a sudden an American Indian, etc shows up and says this land you live on and hence your House belong to me since my ancestors, 2000 Years ago, owned this land! How would you like that?
Skinzoomer.... Look at it this way, the Bible told us about Talent, not burying talents...The Israeli lived in the land. They build edifices. The palestinians lived. Nothing to show. Just the few decades that the Israelis got there, they are already back at work turning the desert green! The palestinians are still as usual sitting on their haunches, quibbling, quarrelling, using stones to fight kalashnikovs and tanks. Well, time moves... Either one gets off their backsides,
and do something positive with whatever resources one has at ones disposal, or one goes the way of the dinosaurs. Extinct!
God is a scientist. He decided to choose father Abraham as a test case after the disastrous event of the generation of Father Noah that instead of helping to build the ark were busy defecating in the Ark while father Noah was building it. God's test case about what make these creatures called human being was Abraham.
To make sure he understands why human were so stubborn, he even sent his son, Jesus Christ. Killed of course. Now, the jews are the offsprings of father Abraham. A test case, the experiment. That therefore means that we all, Jews and gentile are his children, as long as we choose to recognise his paternity. I am not a goyim that would consider Jews as special children of God and Palestinians as subhuman. No, I however, fair is fair. To me and any fair thinking person,
the Jews care for the land.... Look at the women with the dead child in the Bible 1 Kings 3:16-28, one wanted the child destroyed. The other wanted the child to live. We all read how that story ended.
Palestinians always want the land up in flames, whereas the Israelis tend and build. Judge for yourself. Shalom.
Moving US embassy by Trump to Jerusalem is just another act of Hate and War by Trump NutyYahoo Axis of Evil. This video does a great job of describing how wrong all this hate coming out of USA by Repugs or Democrats and Wall Street Media are. It made me Cry!
Note those others are: Putin, Merkel, etc World leaders who are silent in face of all this wrong 😭
Every president before Trump may have authorized movement, but they all sought for a more diplomatic solution, like a bilateral agreement for peace between Israel and Palestine. Trump is the only president to "shoot first" ask questions later, so to speak. Besides, he and his son-in-law have a vested interest in Israel. This move was precipitated more financial than even political. The other presidents weren't wrong, Trump is!
It does not matter why Trump did what he did. What matters is that he obeyed the law Clinton signed, while the other Presidents BROKE THE LAW and should be incarcerated for doing so. When you or I break the law, we go to jail or worse. So should they.
Clinton did not need to sign that law. He could have used diplomacy as you suggest instead. But once he signed the law, diplomacy was OFF THE TABLE AS A SOLUTION for him and the others.
mmerlinn is further proof od what lunatics Trump Republicans are for 1st stateing that: "all Trump did was OBEY .. Clinton & Obama..."
and this is same Trump that has trashed Obama laws such as Paris Climate Accord, Iran deal, etc.
2nd in ultimate proof of what lunatics Trump Republicans are he calls the entire World to be "nutjobs" for having condemned this action of Trump. So in proving what psycho Trump Republicans are, he is calling:
UK a "nutjob"
France a "nutjob"
Germany a "nutjob"
Canada a "nutjob"
Italy a "nutjob"
Spain a "nutjob"
Australia a "nutjob"
for beside Israel NO other Nations has approved this action.
So the question we need to ask ourselves, is how is it possible that so many Americans have become such lunatics to call the entire World "nutjob" while praising Trump? Answer is US Media is Israeli controlled, this ranges from CNN MSNBC etc. that does not tell American people the facts to Fox etc. that tells psychotic Hate filled lies on 24/7 basis.
It is ashemed that "Christians" in this forum only talk hate politics and not Bible Truth. We do not care who is the rightful owner of the land, we know is God, and He did not gave it to the Palestinians. President Trump just did what the Creator of the World told him to do. Next according to Bible Prophecy is the construction of the Third Temple and later the return of the Messiah of Israel. Israel is the centerstage of the world. Who cares about the other players. Blessings
DumbTime is proof that nutjobs exist. He voted for Trump - I DID NOT VOTE FOR TRUMP AS DumbTime asserts.
DumbTime since I did not approve of your actions, you can go to the back of the class.
The nutjobs can cry and moan all they want, but the U.S. does NOT have to what the nutjobs want. Does that mean the U,S, is right? No, just that the U.S. has the right to do whatever it wants without listening to the peanut gallery.
And the Paris accord and Iran deal were not laws. Only Congress can pass laws that the President may or may not sign. They were treaties that Congress did not vote on and therefore were invalid. Congress must approve all treaties.
Isaiah 53:46! Surely He has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; Yet we esteemed Him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
This is a prophesy given by Isiah the son of Amos... during the reign of King Hezekiah.. About 700 odd years before the birth of the Messiah. This is prophesy... “See, I have set thee in the midst of the nations (Ezekiel 5:5). Israel, called “the navel of the earth,” is strategically located at the hub of three continents. Zechariah 14:4
4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. This is about the Messiah's second coming
and (Psalm 122:6) says “pray for the peace of Jerusalem” for there will never be peace on earth until there's peace in Jerusalem, until Jesus Christ, the Prince of Peace, rules and reigns from Jerusalem
Inconclusion, When our Lord returns, all nations of the world will come to Jerusalem to worship (Micah 2:3). Jerusalem will be the capital city not only of Israel but of the entire world, and the Word of the Lord shall go forth from Zion (Isaiah 2:3). Jesus will reign from Jerusalem (Luke 1:32). Israel is at the center of God’s plan.
The land of Israel was promised to Israelite in perpetuity. So there is a "Promised Land" given to the Jewish Seed by The Creator of the Universe.
Gen 15:18 "In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates"
Gen 26:3-4 "Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;
Gen 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed"
It also says that Israel is responsable to take people from this sacred land out or the Jewsih people shall be punished:
Num 33:53-56 "And ye shall dispossess the inhabitants of the land, and dwell therein: for I have given you the land to possess it.54 And ye shall divide the land by lot for an inheritance among your families: and to the more ye shall give the more inheritance, and to the fewer ye shall give the less inheritance: every man's inheritance shall be in the place where his lot falleth; according to the tribes of your fathers ye shall inherit. 55 But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the l
55 But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell. 56 Moreover it shall come to pass, that I shall do unto you, as I thought to do unto them".
At the end according to Yeshua (Jesus) God will bring back the Jewish People to their land and will stop other people (gentiles) from occupying the land, t
Luk 21:24 “And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Yerushalayim shall be trampled underfoot by the gentiles until the times of the gentiles are filled".
So even Yeshua, the Messiahs of israel, the Son of God, The King of Kings, affirmed His Fathers promise of Jerusalem being the eternal capital of Israel.
Blessings to all
Well, well, well. We all are obviously stating what we believe is the fact. But since we are dealing with things of Biblical history, here is why the land of Israel is promised to Israelite in perpetuity; The promise was first made to Abraham (Genesis 15:18-21), ditto Genesis 17:8 states: The whole land of Canaan, where you are now an alien, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God. then confirmed to his son Isaac (Genesis 26:3), and then to Isaac's son Jacob (Genesis 28:13), Abraham's grandson. The promised land was described in terms of the territory from the River of Egypt to the Euphrates river (Exodus 23:31).
"however we rant at America" Really are you brain dead!
After all the only and only Country that has indicated they will move their embassy to Jerusalem is Trump, aka America.
OTOH, all Major Nations on Earth, including your UK, assuming you are from UK, have Voted against such move and condemned it.
Since 1st, No one gets right to a land based on a writing in "Biblical history" and there is much debate as to what Biblical history says in this matter.
Lebon, you provide a good narrative regarding the Old Testament, prior to Israel's unforgivable sin against the Holy Spirit, finalized by the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. You're right, from Abraham (GOD'S first official prophet) to the very last king of Israel, GOD'S promise to Abraham and his seed was under the old Covenant, and ended with the unforgivable sin, upon which the destruction of the Temple - and enters the New Covenant under Jesus Christ!
To Okinawa, please look at this this way. Our Lord and Saviour said in Matthew 5:17; 17. Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. 18 For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.…
Obviously, Our Lord Jesus Christ is telling us here that all God's words are effective, even until the end of TIME.
To mmerlin... Gods time and thought is different from ours. See Isaiah 55:7 to 9 which says; 7 Let the wicked forsake his way And the unrighteous man his thoughts; And let him return to the LORD, And He will have compassion on him, And to our God, For He will abundantly pardon. 8"For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," declares the LORD. 9"For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.…
Good morning mmelinn... Let me explain the relevance for you. You said ''And 'promised' by God? Does God lie? If 'forever' is not over and God does not lie, then obviously this promise by God still exists today.'' Israel sinned. Yes. They rejected God. He sent his Only Son, Jesus Christ, they also rejected him and killed him! There is a reward for their sin. 1878 years of punishment. 47 generations. But God anger will no last forever. www.bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/God-Will-No-More-Be-Angry
Jerusalem is occupied Territory, and hence a criminal act to move an Embassy there.
A fact that entire World major Nations recognize, but only Trump Republicans Israel. Here:
"U.N. Votes Overwhelmingly To Condemn U.S. Decision On Jerusalem"
Put simply Trump was Elected by collusion of NYC Wall Street Zionist Billionaire and hence he has been doing all they want, and they been rewarding him with record high after another on Wall Street. And to mind F***K American people, this Wall Street Billionaire that controls entire Big Media in US from CNN to Fox to Google to Facebook, etc. been running this Super BS of "Muller Russia" crap to deflect attention from who really Trump colluded with.
So Trump Republicans and his Wall Street Billionaire Cabal bosses are the SWAMP 😡
WT, that is good sign man. That is Jews in Israel standing up against the War Monger Hate Monger NutyYahoo and his Republican lap dog Trump.
In fact most Jews are very good People and not War Monger Hate Monger like NutyYahoo and the Neo-Cons in Israel and the Ultra right-wing Media in USA which leads to the War after War of USA either under Obama Democrats or Bush_Trump Republicans.
And to them praising Trump illegally moving US embassy to Jerusalem and all resulting hate and blood shed.
The above answers are 100% related to this question.
So they are 100% on topic. And SPAM is when you are trying to promote your Site, which of course the above answers are not.
So the fact is that you do not like the Truth that the above answers expose.
RT, True what you have written. But lets keep in mind that many Democrats if not all, are controlled by same Wall Street Billionaire Cabal as Trump is, best example of which is this Joe Liberman who was a Dem VP at one time, here:
Why there is so much SPAM, HATE and not single based bible truth in this topic. Lets stop the republican hate or the ob sviously hate for Trump. This is a Christian Forum, not hate jews forum. Who cares what the ONU says. We should only care for what God says. Blessings
It belongs only to God as does the whole world. So in the end land rights and ownership rights in the present system only exist as long as God allows them. Man may seem to have tied it up, but nothing is safe under mans rule. So the study shown is quite irrelevant for God will do what God has said and in the end Jesus Christ will reign on this earth and none will be able to stop Him. It is God not man that has and is bringing back the Jews to the land He gave to them. Yes and all the nations of the world will rise up against the Jews and they will seem to completely win against the Jews, but then Jesus Christ will come and all the pretenders will cease to be.
The whole area was given to Abraham by God and reclaimed by Joshua and Caleb. That said who is in control has the rights. Russia took over Ukraine because Obama didn't protect them like the treaty that was signed. The USA defeated many Indian tribes to rule the USA. The rightful owners? I will side with God of the Bible, Jesus and the Holy Spirit and the fact Israel controls the country. Palestine has never really controlled Israel as a country
Golfer, I put a question to you! Under the New Covenant, not the Old from which you speak, from 70 AD onward to 1948, before the Jews returned to Israel from Europe and other parts, did not the Palestinians occupy Israel, and claim Jerusalem as their Holy City?
Under the New Covenant When Jesus died and in the new world to come Jerusalem is/will be the capital. That Covenant?
Have the Jews of Israel been defeated and thrown out of there home land--yes but it is still Israel.
Yes, Golfer, I agree in part. The Israel spoken of in the New Testament Bible is a "Spiritual Israel" not a physical Israel. If it wasn't so, then the Bible would be in error since it specifically refers to all living "in Christ and Christ in them." This means non sole possession by any race, creed and/or ethnicity. Today's Israeli Jews, that is to say, those who accept only the Torah and other Hebrew Religious Books, don't believe in the New Testament Bible. They believe that the Messiah
Cont'd>> has yet to come, and that under its Jewish history, Israel (including Jerusalem) belongs solely to them, not to non Jews. That is why Palestinians has just as much right to the "physical Israel" of today as any other.
According to Kathleen Kenyon's 1961-1967 archaeological excavations in Jebusite Jerusalem she concluded that "David's men did indeed capture the city in this way and they made it the capital of Israel about 1000 B.
Greetings, sicili12! Keep in mind, even if Kathleen Kenyon were right, this would only show that the city was captured before the birth of Christ. David would be under the Old Covenant as revealed in the Old Testament Bible. Christ is under the New Covenant. In 70 AD, under the Emperor Titas, Jerusalem was conquered, the Temple destroyed, and the Jews were scattered to the distant parts of the globe. Therefore, the real question is, after 70 AD, under the New Covenant, can there be a sole
It does not matter if somebody agree or not with winning war reality. If Hitler would win WWII everybody would speak now German and history books would be burned together with Holy Bible. The same thing is with Communism or other insane oppressive ideologies.
Must say, Marianland, you have a "one-tack" sense of reality! For sure, when a nation conquers another nation, they may possess the other's territory, but they don't "rightfully own it." It's the conquest that actually proves my statement!
If you will look all current owners's ownership you will realized that according to "rightful ownership" theory all land would be Adam and Eve property from "rightfully own it." point of view or some monkeys in Africa from Communist point of view..
Okinawa 1985. Israel will come back as they have done by the hand of YHWH.
(ISRAEL WILL BE CONVERTED, AND THEY WILL COME BACK TO THEIR LAND) Isa 66:20 And they shall bring all your brothers out of all nations, an offering to YAHWEH, on horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and on mules, and on camels, to My holy mountain Jerusalem, says YAHWEH; as the sons of Israel bring the offering in a clean vessel to the house of YAHWEH.
(ISRAEL WILL BE CONVERTED, AND THEY WILL COME BACK TO THEIR LAND)
Eze 34:13 And I will bring them out from the peoples, and gather them from the lands, and I will bring them to their land and feed them on the mountains of Israel, by the ravines, and in all the dwelling places of the land.
(SEE ISRAEL ITS TO BE SAVE) Rom 10:1 Brethren, truly my heart's desire and prayer to YAHWEH on behalf of Israel is for it to be saved.
(ISRAEL WILL BE CONVERTED, AND THEY WILL COME BACK TO THEIR LAND) Rom 11:25 For I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be wise within yourselves, that hardness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the nations comes in; (Gen. 48:8-19)
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, He said to them, (WHERE ARE THE PALESTINIANS HERE?) "Behold, days are coming, says YAHWEH, and I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah;